Tuesday 06/23/2015 by phishnet

BEST OF 1997 (20-16)

This week at Phish.Net, we're going to be counting down the twenty best shows of 1997, as decided by members of the Phish.Net team. Start here if you missed yesterday's post announcing the project, the methodology, and a few shows that didn't quite make the cut. Now, without further ado, Shows 20-16 after the jump... [SP]

Previously: Honorable Mentions

20. 8/16/97 Loring Commerce Centre, Limestone, ME (Brian Levine)

This was that show for me. Sure, I’d been obsessed with this band since my first in Buffalo the preceding fall. Yes, I’d even endured 10 hours of solo bus riding to catch the two New Year’s shows in Boston. And hell, just to get here, we’d driven 16 hours in a Datsun with no stereo (all we had was a tiny boombox—de-emphasis on boom—tied down to the center console) to what might as well have been Newfoundland. But at the conclusion of night one of the Great Went, I finally understood the compulsion to attend as many damned Phish shows as the competing obligations of my life would allow.

From the conclusion of the Clifford Ball’s “Harpua” and the greatest (Type I, at least) “Limb by Limb,” to the jaw-dropping “Wolfman’s” -> “Simple” -> “Odd Couple” -> “My Soul” and “Halley’s” -> “Cities” -> “Llama” segue-a-thons, this show contains an embarrassment of riches. The next day features the best set of the weekend—perhaps of Phish’s career—but picking either show above the other is a far more difficult decision to make.

19. 11/29/97 Worcester Centrum Centre, Worcester, MA (Dan Mielcarz)

Normally one reviews a show in the order it was played, but for this show it would be burying the lede. It’s all about the “Runaway Jim.” I was in the room that night. Honestly, when the first riff of “Jim” started I was kind of disappointed. While it had jammed before (most recently at Shoreline on 7/31) it still was more likely than not to be a warm up tune, and I’m not typically looking for a warm-up song to open set II. Following the composed section, Trey activates a spacey delay loop while Mike switches up to a driving bass line. Mike is a true all-star in the first part of this jam. Trey plays some porno-funk licks over some inventive drum fills from Phish, while Page comps along on the clavinet. Each band member has a time where they lead the jam, which felt like a live version of the improvisation exercises that Trey would talk about in interviews. The jam flows through several distinct themes with very little downtime - this isn’t a noodly space jam at all. Describing the entire jam would exceed the space allotted to the 19th-ranked show, but on that night, fifty-eight minutes of extremely inventive improvisation later, with my brain in a puddle on the floor, I tried to comprehend what I had just seen (for an in-the-moment look at my thought process, check out my incredibly hyperbolic review of the show posted immediately following to rec.music.phish). It ends with a thrilling dip into a “Weekapaug Groove” jam followed by a short rocking outro. All of the jam might not appeal to all of the people all of the time, but the entire thing is a simply amazing achievement in the world of improvisational music. Please do yourself a favor and track down the soundboard recording released as part of Live Bait Vol. 3.



"Runaway Jim" -- 11/29/97 Worcester, MA

While the “Jim” towers over everything else they played that evening, the rest of the show is still pretty great. One of the best “Foams” ever, a rare “TMWSIY” > “Avenu Malkenu” > “TMWSIY”, and a very solid “David Bowie” made the first set an very enjoyable affair. As for the second set, playing “Strange Design” after the insanity that was the “Jim” was pretty much the best placement of that song ever. “Harry Hood” was magical, and “Suzy Greenberg” made her first appearance since March. Topping off the show was one of the best encores of 1997, with the fifth-ever “Buffalo Bill,” an amazing “Moby Dick” and a fiery (ahem) “Fire.” The point of this exercise was to rank the best shows of 1997. With a jam as towering as the historic “Runaway Jim,” and the rest of the tunes easily at or above replacement level, this show justifiably squeaks into the top 20.

18. 7/1/97 Paradiso, Amsterdam, Netherlands (Phillip Zerbo)

There is a lot to love about Phish’s performance on 7/1/97, the first of two nights at Amsterdam’s famed Paradiso; there are also challenges. Take the 22-minute plus show-opening “Ghost.” This “Ghost” sets the tone for the whole show, which is among the most mellow in the band’s history. This version is a top-10 “Ghost” for 1997, but probably toward back end of that tally – not a lot really happens here, especially compared to the myriad explosions this song would witness in the years to come. Glass half-full, this is “low gear Phish,” another flavor of top-shelf improvisation, just a different flavor; glass half-empty, this “Ghost” languishes in a cloud of directionless haze. This laid-back approach certainly has its benefits, chief among them in the first set is one of the best early versions of “Limb By Limb,” where the pace really allows the jam to flower. But it is also an approach with pitfalls – the 17-minute “Reba” is just this side of a train wreck in the composed section, before a meandering jam that eventually pulls it together for a delightful peak.

The when-in-Rome stoner vibe continues in the second set, with Fish offering... a keyboard jam to open? A unique kickoff to be sure, which is oddly reminiscent of Supertramp. The meat of this show is, of course, the “Bathtub Gin” -> “Cities” that occupies the 40-minute heart of the second set. The “Gin” is fantastic in itself, but where the mellow approach really pays off is in the tantalizing patience of the segue into “Cities.” Turning the frenzied excitement of Talking Heads’ original on its head, this beautiful jam is locked in virtual slow-motion. The jam almost comes to a complete stop at one point – leading some obscure setlist archives to bizarrely label it “Cities” > “Jam” – before resuming on a delightfully aimless path through time and space. The “riding the worm” theme that had woven in and out of the show appears again here, giving the “Cities” jam another distinctive flavor, an icing on the hash-infused cake. This segment is minimalist in structure but is the conduit for a flow of ideas that is highly active and engaging. “Loving Cup” seems a bit misplaced, but the “Slave” is best-of-breed for ‘97 and taps into the night’s pace to brilliant effect.

This show is perfect listening for the appropriate moment and mood, and thankfully it is now available as part of the fantastic Amsterdam box set. This is a tough show to judge – it did not make the top 20 of several ballots – but the composite rating is very fair when you consider the powerhouse lineup of shows that was to come. Read on...

17. 7/10/97 Espace Julien, Marseilles, France (Steve Paolini)

Shows like 7/10/97 normally aren't my favorites. Others call a show "fun" and I'm inevitably the grumpy old man calling it "gimmicky" and asking where the nearest 20-minute "Tweezer" is. But 7/10 is more than just a "fun" show. It's original. I really can't think of another show quite like it in 1997 or any other year really. The first set contains three proto-cowfunk jams (calf-funk?) out of "Bathtub Gin," "Llama," (!) and "Wading" (!!!). The "Wading" actually gives birth to a out-of-nowhere "Lizards" jam, in a different key, no less. It all comes together to form a coherent 50-minute suite of music that we rarely get in a second set, let alone a first.


Photo courtesy of Expressobeans.com

As for the second set, there's admittedly not a single jam you would hang your hat on as among the year's best, but the set is dripping with extra Grey Poupon. At the same time, it maintains a casual atmosphere that, at times, almost fools you into thinking you're listening to a soundcheck. The set opening "2001" is appropriately funky and the "Julius," "Magilla," and "Ya Mar" are all incredibly loose, in a good way. There may not be any meaningful type-II improv here, but these sure as hell aren't typical versions of these songs either. The set closes with an underrated version of "Ghost" that morphs into the second (and, to date, last) version "Take Me to the River." Add it all up, and there's more than enough here to compare favorably with the second tier of 1997 shows. If you can still have fun, that is.

16. 11/28/97 Worcester Centrum Centre, Worcester, MA (Eric Wyman)

While the 1997 run of shows in Worcester at THE Centrum are most remembered for their lengthy explorations in the 59 minute “Runaway Jim” from 11/29 and the 30 minute “Wolfman’s Brother” from 11/30, it is the more even experience from the first night that rises as the best show of that weekend. While it lacks a jam of historical significance with regard to length, what it does have is a continuous offering of solid music. Highlighted by a first set “You Enjoy Myself” and not just a “cool, first set YEM” version, but one that is truly one of the best versions ever. Of course everyone knows about the funk-infusion that built over 1997, but this show is so deliberate in its inclusion. Beginning after the tramps segment in YEM, through (the still new) “Black Eyed Katy” and into the second set “Ghost” this show never feels gimmicky with the funk-ladened vibe. The show has a perfect mix of energy levels and the “Ghost” > “Johnny B. Goode” nearly lifts the roof off the venue. The legendary jams from the ensuing nights have a rightful place in the band’s lore, but one-off jams do not make great shows all the time and this is true for the Worcester run in Fall of 1997.

Coming Tomorrow: Shows 15-11

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Comments

, comment by MiguelSanchez
MiguelSanchez Good to see Worcester get some love. Top to bottom, it may be my favorite 3 night run.
, comment by Dressed_In_Gray
Dressed_In_Gray There's a tear in my eye to see 7/10/97 on this list.

I'm not sure if it is a tear of joy that this show is finally getting its due, or a tear of sadness because the AUDs for this show still stink to this day.
, comment by Choda
Choda I disagree with the 7/1 first set review. I think that Reba is thrilling and the limb is fantastic for such an early version. And I don't get why shows need to have "significant" jams to be considered great. 6/22/94 has no jam to speak of and I'd consider that show the cream de la cream.
, comment by n00b100
n00b100 @Dressed_In_Gray said:
There's a tear in my eye to see 7/10/97 on this list.

I'm not sure if it is a tear of joy that this show is finally getting its due, or a tear of sadness because the AUDs for this show still stink to this day.
@KernelForbin (I think) did a remaster that at least makes it semi-listenable. I'm very happy it's here as well; still think it's the best Summer European show not played in Amsterdam.

11/29/97 being on the master list over 12/29/97 made me sigh. Not only do I not really love that Jim, but I just can't get behind the rest of the show being all that great, especially stacked up to shows from *this* year. 11/28, on the other hand, is a wonderful show and definitely deserves being here.
, comment by Choda
Choda @n00b100 said:
@Dressed_In_Gray said:
There's a tear in my eye to see 7/10/97 on this list.

I'm not sure if it is a tear of joy that this show is finally getting its due, or a tear of sadness because the AUDs for this show still stink to this day.
@KernelForbin (I think) did a remaster that at least makes it semi-listenable. I'm very happy it's here as well; still think it's the best Summer European show not played in Amsterdam.

11/29/97 being on the master list over 12/29/97 made me sigh. Not only do I not really love that Jim, but I just can't get behind the rest of the show being all that great, especially stacked up to shows from *this* year. 11/28, on the other hand, is a wonderful show and definitely deserves being here.
You love the Tahoe tweezer but this Jim you can't get behind? It truly is one of the greatest risks in phishtory. It's thrilling, scary and as Trey says it "was like they were playing in his living room".
, comment by lumpblockclod
lumpblockclod 11/29 was probably the most polarizing show in our rankings. A few people had it as (or close to) a top 10 show, while it didn't make anyone else's top 20. I love the first 25 minor the Jim, but it loses me after that and I'm in the camp that there's not enough left to make this one of the 20 best shows of 1997. But for those who love the longest Phish jam if all time, anything else the show has to offer is just gravy.
, comment by n00b100
n00b100 @Choda said:


You love the Tahoe tweezer but this Jim you can't get behind? It truly is one of the greatest risks in phishtory. It's thrilling, scary and as Trey says it "was like they were playing in his living room".
Gosh, and people say *I'M* obsessed with the Tahoe Tweezer...

Here's the thing - it's great that they took that risk and all of that, but how much of a cookie do I need to give the band if (***in my opinion***) the risk that they took wasn't all that listenable to my ears? I'll put it to you like this - if the Worcester Jim was the same length as the Tahoe Tweezer, then I'd love it much more. But it isn't, and the part of the jam that I do not find much musical value in drags down how much I enjoy it.

The Mud Island Tweezer takes the exact same risk, and to my ears, it's *far* more successful than the Worcester Jim is; it essentially coalesces all the experiments of the previous big Tweezers into a full *statement*, the way that all the experiments scientists conduct leads to an actual thesis/product/whatever else. Your mileage may vary, as always.
, comment by Lee_Fordham
Lee_Fordham "dripping with extra Grey Poupon."

Nice.
, comment by n00b100
n00b100 @Choda said:
I disagree with the 7/1 first set review. I think that Reba is thrilling and the limb is fantastic for such an early version. And I don't get why shows need to have "significant" jams to be considered great. 6/22/94 has no jam to speak of and I'd consider that show the cream de la cream.
By the way, this I totally agree with.
, comment by Dressed_In_Gray
Dressed_In_Gray @n00b100 said:
@Dressed_In_Gray said:
There's a tear in my eye to see 7/10/97 on this list.

I'm not sure if it is a tear of joy that this show is finally getting its due, or a tear of sadness because the AUDs for this show still stink to this day.
@KernelForbin (I think) did a remaster that at least makes it semi-listenable. I'm very happy it's here as well; still think it's the best Summer European show not played in Amsterdam.
Yeah, I have had Forbin's remaster for a while now. I'm just greedy and want a SBD release. Must be because of the vampire child within me.
, comment by ColForbin
ColForbin As one of the greatest champions of 11/29 in the voting, I guess I should justify it a bit.

The Jim is definitely a polarizing jam - I love every minute of it but several other members of the panel get bored. It's a borderline top 20 showoff sure, which makes coming in at 19 pretty appropriate, I think. But maybe with one or two more voters it drops to an honorable mention and 12/29 of 2/17 squeak in. But the data is what the data is!
, comment by n00b100
n00b100 @Dressed_In_Gray said:
@n00b100 said:
@Dressed_In_Gray said:
There's a tear in my eye to see 7/10/97 on this list.

I'm not sure if it is a tear of joy that this show is finally getting its due, or a tear of sadness because the AUDs for this show still stink to this day.
@KernelForbin (I think) did a remaster that at least makes it semi-listenable. I'm very happy it's here as well; still think it's the best Summer European show not played in Amsterdam.
Yeah, I have had Forbin's remaster for a while now. I'm just greedy and want a SBD release. Must be because of the vampire child within me.
You and me both. I can't imagine it's high on their remaster list, though. ;)
, comment by MiguelSanchez
MiguelSanchez @n00b100 said:
@Choda said:


You love the Tahoe tweezer but this Jim you can't get behind? It truly is one of the greatest risks in phishtory. It's thrilling, scary and as Trey says it "was like they were playing in his living room".
Gosh, and people say *I'M* obsessed with the Tahoe Tweezer...

Here's the thing - it's great that they took that risk and all of that, but how much of a cookie do I need to give the band if (***in my opinion***) the risk that they took wasn't all that listenable to my ears? I'll put it to you like this - if the Worcester Jim was the same length as the Tahoe Tweezer, then I'd love it much more. But it isn't, and the part of the jam that I do not find much musical value in drags down how much I enjoy it.

The Mud Island Tweezer takes the exact same risk, and to my ears, it's *far* more successful than the Worcester Jim is; it essentially coalesces all the experiments of the previous big Tweezers into a full *statement*, the way that all the experiments scientists conduct leads to an actual thesis/product/whatever else. Your mileage may vary, as always.
It's been a while, maybe 8-12 months, since I've spun the mud island tweezer or the Worcester Jim. I really like them both, but I am far more captivated by the Jim. That baby covers a lot of ground, and when they hit some of those heavy big time rock riffs, man, it's just the bee's knees.

In conclusion, I am going to make it a point to listen to both of those this week.
, comment by 12_29_97_4eva
12_29_97_4eva @ColForbin said:
As one of the greatest champions of 11/29 in the voting, I guess I should justify it a bit.

The Jim is definitely a polarizing jam - I love every minute of it but several other members of the panel get bored. It's a borderline top 20 showoff sure, which makes coming in at 19 pretty appropriate, I think. But maybe with one or two more voters it drops to an honorable mention and 12/29 of 2/17 squeak in. But the data is what the data is!
I'd like to vote for 12/29/97 so it rightfully makes the Top 20 list. Oh, it's too late and I'm not allowed to participate? Then I call shenanigans!
, comment by pikepredator
pikepredator @n00b100 said:

11/29/97 being on the master list over 12/29/97 made me sigh. Not only do I not really love that Jim, but I just can't get behind the rest of the show being all that great, especially stacked up to shows from *this* year. 11/28, on the other hand, is a wonderful show and definitely deserves being here.
agreed all around. I am not crazy about the 12/29 DWD or the 11/29 Jim. Those 2 jams aside, the "filler" (antelope and Bowie/possum/tube) from MSG are better than Worcester's extras.

08/16's relatively low placement surprises me. It was my first show and Halley's> Cities> Llama was when I Got It, so there's that, but I still think 08/16 is deeper than 08/17. 08/17 II is perfect, but after that it's 08/16 II/III and I before going to I/III from 08/17.
, comment by Choda
Choda @n00b100 said:
@Choda said:
I disagree with the 7/1 first set review. I think that Reba is thrilling and the limb is fantastic for such an early version. And I don't get why shows need to have "significant" jams to be considered great. 6/22/94 has no jam to speak of and I'd consider that show the cream de la cream.
By the way, this I totally agree with.
We Agree on something! 🙀
, comment by jaredprox
jaredprox @lumpblockclod said:
11/29 was probably the most polarizing show in our rankings. A few people had it as (or close to) a top 10 show, while it didn't make anyone else's top 20. I love the first 25 minor the Jim, but it loses me after that and I'm in the camp that there's not enough left to make this one of the 20 best shows of 1997. But for those who love the longest Phish jam if all time, anything else the show has to offer is just gravy.
Nothing else besides the Jim? How about a beautiful Hood and one of the greatest encores of all time: Buffalo Bill, Moby Dick (w/ John Bonham Fishman) and Fire.
, comment by bl002e
bl002e @jaredprox said:
@lumpblockclod said:
11/29 was probably the most polarizing show in our rankings. A few people had it as (or close to) a top 10 show, while it didn't make anyone else's top 20. I love the first 25 minor the Jim, but it loses me after that and I'm in the camp that there's not enough left to make this one of the 20 best shows of 1997. But for those who love the longest Phish jam if all time, anything else the show has to offer is just gravy.
Nothing else besides the Jim? How about a beautiful Hood and one of the greatest encores of all time: Buffalo Bill, Moby Dick (w/ John Bonham Fishman) and Fire.
Saying "there's not enough left to make this one of the 20 best shows of 1997" isn't really the same thing as saying that there's "nothing else besides the Jim." A good Hood and a fun encore would almost definitely be enough of a supporting cast to carry a show into the top tier of 1996, and possibly 1998's, but '97 simply demands better IMO.
, comment by MiguelSanchez
MiguelSanchez Wow. 11/29/97 appears to be much more contentious than I would have imagined. With that in consideration, I think #19 is a pretty fair spot for it. Personally, it would be closer to top 10 for me, but I LOVE that Jim. IMO, it's a pretty solid show with a monster hour long jam.

If Phish threw me an hour long jam like that now (or in '97), they could throw me a Caspian-> bug-> numberline after that, and I'd still be grinning ear to ear as I left the show.
, comment by lumpblockclod
lumpblockclod One of our many sidebar conversations, involved what 3.0 shows could potentially crack this list. The back-of-the-envelope consensus was "Maybe 8/31/12."
, comment by RunawayJim4180
RunawayJim4180 I'd be lying if I said I remember a lot about 11/29 besides the Jim, as I think it was my third or fourth show and I was still getting my bearings as a noob. In listening back today, there is a rather old school feel to that first set (Foam, TMWSIY, Sloth, Bowie) that suits me just fine.

As far as the Jim, it contains some of the best pure blues I've ever heard this band play (those delicate licks from about 15-20 minutes in), to the incredible uplifting jam of the next 10 mins or so, a lot of weirdness for 20 mins, and the whole things explodes into Ecstasy during the Weekapaug jam. I remember my friend jotting down some setlist notes during the show and furiously scribbling away then laughing about it after the show. I texted him today after seeing this list to ask what he had wrote, and he said "Runaway Jim-> All Blues-> Space (Dead Cover)-> Weekapaug-> Space". I don't know if he was either dead on or way off, but I think everyone was pretty confused about what was going on at the time, including me.
, comment by MiguelSanchez
MiguelSanchez @lumpblockclod said:
One of our many sidebar conversations, involved what 3.0 shows could potentially crack this list. The back-of-the-envelope consensus was "Maybe 8/31/12."
that's a big fat maybe. this is '97 brah.
, comment by therealburnham
therealburnham I'm just happy that 6/25/97 hasn't been picked yet. I hope it hasn't been overlooked as DWD> Piper> Meatstick> McGrupp might be my favorite suite of songs in 97. That McGrupp being the singular best moment of 97 for me.
, comment by Choda
Choda @MiguelSanchez said:
Wow. 11/29/97 appears to be much more contentious than I would have imagined. With that in consideration, I think #19 is a pretty fair spot for it. Personally, it would be closer to top 10 for me, but I LOVE that Jim. IMO, it's a pretty solid show with a monster hour long jam.

If Phish threw me an hour long jam like that now (or in '97), they could throw me a Caspian-> bug-> numberline after that, and I'd still be grinning ear to ear as I left the show.
This is why you are one of my favorite netters.
, comment by pistilstamen
pistilstamen I contend the Foam, Simple -> TMWSIY (I will love a segue into TMWSIY no matter what...it's one of my rules), and Bowie are all worth listening to from 11-29-97. Does this make it top shelf 1997 fare? Eh, probably not, but when the longest jam in the history of the band comprises the vast majority of Set 2, that is a Top 20 show, I don't see how anyone can question that.

Seriously, come for the Jim, but don't miss the the three highlights from Set 1.
, comment by J_D_G
J_D_G I'm with you. Several members of the panel contended that they found at least half of the Jim "unlistenable," which was a new one on me. It's always had its partisans and its "yeah, but" people, and some parts of the jam are better than others, but i had no idea people were walking around thinking that it was a failed experiment. Leaving it off a top 20 list is a real over-correction, imo.
, comment by SikeMo
SikeMo Sometimes the 'noodling' gets to be too much for certain people, myself included. However I am willing to wade through noodling if it leads to greatness.
, comment by classicandsigniture
classicandsigniture Made an account just now to note a factual error on the 8/17/97 review. The third set did not open with Wedge and contain Tweezer, that happened in the first set. They opened set three with an extremely rare Buffalo Bill that featured a flawless segue in to NICU, the set also contains a ragin' Scent of a Mule and Guyute taboot! They definitely did not come out firing blanks on that third set. Seems like this show might have gotten shafted due to some clerical errors on the listeners part.
, comment by kooshdog
kooshdog I was at the Jim, and actually Hartford > 29. I got pretty frustrated by that Jim after the first 20 minutes, but also blame some of that on the popcorn I had before the show. I actually decided not to go to the 30th during that jam.
I went back and revisited the Jim and my feelings are still the same, but I respect others that love it. Still give them kudos for doing it
, comment by jaredprox
jaredprox I always just assumed people loved this Jim. For me, it's exactly what I want to hear at a show...just go, go, go and keep stretching it out. It was like, yes, they finally just did it---an hour of jamming, and without gimmicky segues. I'd never been happier at a show. But, now I *kinda* understand why some people don't like this Jim. Thanks, .net. The more you know! P.S. Anyone who says they dislike this Jim can never complain about ripcording again.
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